Thoughts from the winner of the record-setting $11,575 fursuit auction.
by Patch O'Furr
What a price for a fursuit! On 2/14/15, furries saw their highest auction ever. It was only a few months after the previous record (I wonder how long this one will last?)
While $11,575 is amazing, I don’t think it should cause drama… some people spend much more money on cars for a hobby. Hollywood effects costuming can add another zero on the price. I often argue that higher prices make creativity easier for artists, and art patrons benefit the art form.
There was a lot of notice for my article about the February auction. Furbuy (host) and Phoenixwolf (maker) commented, but it took a while to reach the buyer, Twilightsaint. We finally connected.
I asked Twilightsaint:
“There was controversy about the auction reaching $14,000 with non legit bids. So perhaps it was a hard contest, and you had luck to win the suit. Do you think it ended up fairly? How did you feel to win? Art value is very subjective of course – is there any reason it’s worth so much to you? Has there been any other drama?”
Twilightsaint says:
“Thanks for asking! Happy to answer some questions and shed some light on this pretty epic auction.
Since you bring it up first, yes, I saw the strange, later retracted, bid of $14,000, which of course added quite a bit of buzz to this already widely watched auction. That illegitimate bid honestly did not surprise me, since, at the time, another auction on FurBuy, (a Border Collie, in particular,) had been plagued by similar happenings, and that whole auction eventually had to be taken down and reposted as a result. After these kind of fishy practices, I think many furs and I watched the Angel Dragon auction even more closely.
The bids to the end of the Angel Dragon auction were legitimate, both on my side and that of the other bidder, who was, in fact, a real person and not a troll as many had assumed from the get-go, (and even to the final moments of the bidding.) I must admit, I was enormously happy to win, yet I did feel a bit bummed as I also knew how much the other bidder wanted the suit as well. As of now, the other bidder is seeking a suit of their own, and I am looking forward to fursuiting with them at upcoming conventions as Angel Dragon friends!
A lot of people have asked me, and continue to do so even now, why I spent so much on the suit. First and foremost, how much someone spends on anything is nobody else’s business, I just want to put that out in the open now. Nobody has the right to question anybody else on why they purchased something and for what price, no matter who they are or what the item in particular is.
Art by TwilightSaint.
Like you, I like to consider myself a patron of the arts, and especially as an artist myself, I really value art very highly. I know how much it means to me when someone wants to commission me for my most detailed artwork option or the most elaborate reference sheet. It really makes my day, and I appreciate it so much when someone else also values my art that much that they are willing to spend top dollar and beyond for it. So with that in mind, it also means a lot to me to be able to commission other artists for their works, because I know how that feels myself, and it is awesome to be able to return that to such a vibrant community. A community, I may add, that is what it is because of artists and creative minds, both the artists who can create pieces and those who have the imagination to think up such great character designs and stories and music and dancing and acting!
And another aspect as to why I valued and spent so much on the suit is because, as an active duty pilot in the military, you could say my life is a bit stressful, (no sarcasm there whatsoever.) Art and fursuiting is a fun, productive, unique way to express myself as well as spend the pent-up energy that I otherwise cannot just cut loose on when I am on a mission or training, or even simply being in uniform as an Officer, so fursuiting is, in a way for me, a type of decompression. And that is something that nobody can put a price on. I can, quite literally, call myself ‘fighter pilot by day, furry by night,’ hahaha.
Unfortunately, there has been some drama, mainly surrounding a recent convention that I attended. It was brought to my attention beforehand that several individuals were threatening physical harm to me at the convention. I had briefed handlers on the situation, and despite this, the convention was a blast and went without a hitch. This was really due to my handlers who I cannot thank enough for keeping an eye on me! I did overhear the typical, ‘That’s the suit that went for $xxx,’ (insert random, incorrect amount here,) so I was happy to clear things up in person when I caught ear of these. There was one instance that was brought to my attention where one individual made a move to pull a gun on and gestured to shoot me, though security was alerted of the situation and nothing else occurred. I am sure that I do not have to say this as it should be obvious, but NOTHING is worth threatening violence or someone’s physical person over, not even jokingly, especially something as trivial as a fursuit. It is really unfortunate that some individuals feel the need to behave in such a depraved manner.
All this said, I am extremely happy with my decision to purchase the suit. As plain as day, I can say, ‘No regrets.’ The suit has more than paid for itself with the enjoyment I have gotten from it so far, and I am really looking forward to performing more as the character at future conventions and meets, and am excited for all the fun events yet to come! To anyone out there who may be on the fence about getting a fursuit, I cannot recommend it enough! It is a fun, totally unique experience! Thanks again to my handlers at conventions and watchers online for your continued support of my works, and PhoenixWolf and all other makers, artists, musicians, writers, and creators and fans for coming together and sharing your talents and loves in such a vibrant community!”
More pics:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/16238859/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/15911341/
http://twilightsaint.tumblr.com/pos…..ak-the-weather
http://twilightsaint.tumblr.com/pos…..-first-outdoor
Here’s some more thoughts about Furries and their burgeoning market for art:
Comment received –
I’m not understand the concept that this guy could go to any suit maker in the world and be like “Bitch .. suit me!” and get .. anything…
As in … his or own hearts desire… as oppose to a character made up by someone else.
Yeah the suit is cute… but at that price it’s not a extension of you, it’s simply clothing.
My personal thoughts –
“The suit maker created a pre-made with 100% artistic freedom and no direction. It’s like buying a painting or any other piece of art created by the artist, and not commissioned. There’s only one of these in the world, so it’s a lot more than just any clothes.
Getting your own original character is cool – on the other hand, it can limit artists to what’s popular demand, and that isn’t always very creative.
Just recently, some suit makers (like Wild Life) are finding success by taking no commissions and only putting their work out for rare auctions. If they’re good enough, it sets a healthy value as a contest by limiting supply. That’s good for artists. Hustling for commissions may bring in pay that’s very low for the labor it takes – commissioners who just want a cheap price don’t support makers all that well. The more money an artist makes, and the more freedom they get to make their own work, the more they can invest into the art form and push it forward.
Fursuit-making has grown by leaps and bounds in the past decade or so. I think recently we’re seeing fursuiting changing from a hobby into more of a cottage industry. This is one of the signs, another is that now small collections of makers can afford to do it as a living. It lets you hire a specialist instead of having no choice but doing it yourself.
Art markets are interesting. The values are very subjective. For example, high prices cover the artist’s years of sweat to get good at making it. $11,575 buys one fursuit, but also the suit-maker’s experience.
If one day, the stuff we like actually started working like the fine art market, we’d see things like gallery elitism and commercialism. Right now, this is still 100% fan-driven stuff and considered “low art.”
I don’t see any problem with occasional crazy auction prices. Everyone else can still buy a suit at the incredible bargain price of a few grand for weeks of labor, to make an entirely custom piece of apparel. How much custom apparel does anyone own? If people paid actual price to hand-make a pair of jeans, they’d cost hundreds of dollars. And if you want to save more… make it yourself. That’s the beauty of what Furries do.”
Thanks, Twilightsaint! No matter what a suit costs, I think most people appreciate that fursuiting is a performance we can all share.
Dogpatch Press 
sucks that not everyone can have a suit, so when I see people making $10,000 for something which clearly should not. It turns me off from being part of this community. Not everyone can afford $10,000 for a suit. Also the person who created this suit most likely you’ll never have a suit made from this person. Because the fursuit community has grown too big and not enough suit makers. So with that I am out
Fursuits like art are luxury items. Not everyone gets to own nice luxury items.
Seriously? Just because Phoenixwolf put a suit up for auction that went for 11k+ doesn’t mean her actual prices are that high. If you actually bothered to check her site you’d know that her suits don’t cost anywhere near that much. More and more suit makers are popping up all the time, you just have to look for them. Also the fursuit community has grown too big? Really? Only about 10-15% of the entire fandom have suits and not everyone wants one either.
“When I see people making $10,000 for something which clearly should not. It turns me off from being part of this community”
Did you even read the article? I don’t even know where to begin with how stupid this statement is but if something this small and unimportant makes you that ashamed to be a furry then maybe you weren’t one of us to begin with.
I saw Fursuit sold for less than 1k on furbuy btw so it depends on what you are aiming for. There’s mostly prices for everyone ( If you can’t afford a book after paying your bills at the end of the month, obviously you can’t buy a fursuit )
Or if you don’t trust anyone, make it! Or if you are artistic enough for and don’t want to put 1k on a fursuit ( I did that since I can do one )
“if you don’t trust anyone, make it!” – my thoughts exactly… thanks for reading, and come back for more 🙂
>If one day, the stuff we like actually started working like the fine art market, we’d see things like gallery elitism and commercialism. Right now, this is still 100% fan-driven stuff and considered “low art.”
Regardless of blurry high/low art distinctions, in many ways the furry art market already works like the fine art market and has done so since pretty much the beginning. The only real differences are the price levels and the fact that we don’t need intermediaries like art galleries relying on direct sales instead. But the market dynamics are pretty much the same, from the appraisal of brand over quality to the wild inconsistency and unpredictability of prices. I see most fans and artists drawing comparisons between the furry art market and the entertainment industry (either indie or mainstream) based on similarities in the kind of art produced, but that’s misleading in my opinion since we rely on personal commissions and auctions (just like the fine arts market) much more than we rely on merchandising and royalties like the industry does.
I can’t say I’m actually all that informed about the fine details of the fine art market, but I have to disagree on a number of levels. It kind of goes with opinions like this – Why the Contemporary Art World Is Insufferable, Corrupted by the Super-Rich.
– As you mentioned, price levels. I think, pretty much everything ever sold inside the furry fan niche is accessible to the average consumer. (At least ones with reasonable disposable income.) Nothing is crazy out of reach, like the price of a house. A $12k fursuit can be made on your own or you can buy a partial for hundreds.
– No intermediaries means no powerful dealers and agents, little secondary market, and especially, no institutions having powerful influence (big galleries, museums, and bienniale shows setting trends and careers.) You can personally talk to the popular artists, even if they’re busy. The lucky few who can call this a career (not a hobby, or sideline) are very working class level – not rock stars.
– Nothing is really investment-worthy (although that is hugely subjective… who knew that animation cels would go from disposables they pay to recycle, to world-class ephemera? This stuff is only new since the 80’s.) People buy furry stuff to use and enjoy, not to stick behind glass or in vault storage.
– I don’t get what brand over quality means… Aren’t brands mostly the artists themselves, so they are popular for quality? (What quality means, can vary wildly… like the ability to execute a particular silly kink can be prized.) I don’t sense that a lot of the “brands” are selling junk for the signatures on it, or like factories doing Thomas Kinkade style value-inflating scams.
In short, I think this all makes a fan and hobby driven thing with an open market. Things are done for the sake of creativity and passion, to a much greater extent than one dominated by “the Mandarins of high art”.
Thank you for the links and reply. I see your point, and I’m certainly not trying to argue that furry is a branch of fine arts! That would be silly, if nothing else because the status of “fine art” is bestowed by the elites rather than claimed.
But I do find the market mechanics to be quite similar, which is interesting. Consider that the “filthy rich” kind of contemporary art is just a small slice of the fine art market, although it’s the most visible and the most obnoxious. Outside of museum politics and high tier galleries the bulk of the market is artwork with a price range in the hundreds or low thousands, where only very estabilished artists can expect to regularly fetch $10k or more for a work (and galleries usually get a 30% to 50% commission fee). You can get an idea from any large online list of artwork for sale like http://fineartamerica.com/art/all/all/originals
Of course it’s still way above the price level for furry pictures. But not so much above the price level of fursuits from popular makers. Fursuits are hobby artworks but the sought after ones definitely fall into luxury items territory too, both for their price and for the social implications of owning a famous and notoriously expensive suit. I agree I’m making a stretched comparison here, but not as stretched as it may seem. Even among fine artists the line between hobbyist and professional is very blurred if you ignore the handful of Sotheby’s-tier artist which skew statistics.
Lack of intermediaries in the case of furry art is a consequence of the low price range and low number of people interested in furry stuff outside of the fandom. But nothing about the nature of furry creations rules them out since intermediaries just deal with any kind of art they can market to collectors. They picked up animation cels and original comic book panels, they would readily pick up furry art and hand crafted fursuits if there were a collector demand for them. Same for investment value, it goes hand to hand with intermediary presence since where either develops the other follows. And both can be fabricated too.
What I’m trying to say is the differences from the fine arts market all stem from price levels. At the lower end of the price scale, fine arts work pretty much like furry art, with hobbyists and passion-driven craftsmen making direct sales, small scale auctions and commissions.
> – I don’t get what brand over quality means…
Yeah, that was poor choice of wording, sorry. I just mean that the factors which drive popularity and prices in the fandom are hard to define, while in the entertainment industry (even at the indie level) there are clear benchmarks: skill relative to industry standards, ability to deliver on time and on budget, ability to tackle different subjects and genres, etc. The best paid industry artists are usually the most versatile, reliable and tech savy. In the furry fandom, hardly so. The one factor defining prices of furry art is the artist’s “name” in the fandom (that’s what I meant by “brand”), but why exactly a specific furry artist has made a name for him or herself can only be inferred after the fact and the reasons are wildly different from case to case.
I guess I’m responding to how fine art is hyped, or canonized to teach in academia… in that way, I don’t think it matters whether only a tiny slice of artists are the ones who go in museums and reap crazy high prices. I still think it comes with a dominating influence of money, that I don’t see in a fan-level community with cottage-industry production.
At risk of going off track, I think debate can separate the two activities, like you can separate difference between small merchant level capitalism and big business. Isn’t it all capitalism? Well, no… there’s whole libraries written about monopolism, class polarization, top 1% oligarchy, and such things twisting freedom into exploitation. I won’t say anything about politics, just that there are a lot of tradeoffs in the world, and there is plenty of disagreement about how that stuff works among the highest experts.
Regarding entertainment industry, what I’m most familiar with is music and animation and movies… there, we could raise some serious debate, too! If it’s proposed that “The best paid industry artists are usually the most versatile, reliable and tech savy” – many counterpoints could be made.
– I was just reading, in music, how EDM is being called corrupt with many highest paid “rock star DJ’s” short on talent and covering it up with ghost producers. That’s been a thing forever, with boy bands and overpaid Top 40 artists being considered fake industry puppets by cynical people… which I’m not, so I’m not against enjoying pop trash. 🙂
– In animation, it was kind of a scandal how the highest-end VFX houses kept going out of business because they’re forced to compete for contracts by the hollywood studios in ways that simply can’t pay their bills. It caused this trend of Facebook users replacing their avatars with green-screen color, to put out awareness, when (I think it was Rhythm and Hues?) was driven out of business just as Life of Pi was awarded an Oscar for their work. If the best can’t stay in business, how can skill rise to the top naturally?
– “Hollywood Accounting” – enough said.
My lack of sensing stuff like this in this art community is a reason to call it loveable and DIY, no matter how rough the charm can be. Of course, if it’s on a small community level, there can surely be a lot of different experience between California and Italy. The US has tons of art schools (that’s a whole other topic about big money corruption, too!) but being an artist is likely to keep you in serious poverty here. I suspect Europe doesn’t work the same way.
Well, I can only quote Oscar Wilde: “When bankers get together for dinner, they discuss art; when artists get together for dinner, they discuss money.” Usually because they don’t have any. I don’t think USA and Europe are different in that respect, being a full time artist or craftsman of any kind is a though life choice here too.
I hope you are right and the furry fandom’s model is less subject to money domination, even though money is a central topic in many discussions about furry art too, as demonstrated by backlash against perceived unfair prices and against practices such as YCH auctions and closed-species adoptions. If we had to believe lulz.net denizens the furry art market is already money-driven and corrupted as hell… they are usually trolling out of personal grudges or out of touch with reality, but they occasionally raise some good point. I certainly hope we’ll never see the kind of massive speculation that made other parts of the art world despicable.
I admit I’m mostly familiar with the illustration and game/movie concept art industry than the music industry, and I’m well aware of the undercutting issue, it’s one of the most debated topics in the field. There are no absolute guarantees of success or even survival in any industry. Still I get the impression that success in the industry is proportional to general talent and versatility… if somebody can’t draw you can push him as a great postmodern artist but not as a great industry artist. Rob Liefeld being the exception that proves the rule I guess. X-D
Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about… things like speculation and bubbles, and power of people-who-aren’t-artists to direct careers of people who are. I don’t sense any of that in a little fan niche.
I suspect there’s hardly a person in the world who can 1) be called overpaid for furry activities (excepting, maybe, the owner of Bad Dragon) – 2) Can direct how others participate in this hobby just by spending money to do it. There’s a whole cult who get jollies from whining about Dragoneer and his “popufur (uggh that word) friends… as if “popularity” means anything relative to how furries are so unpopular to the world, they keep their real names separate from it.
“Backlash against perceived unfair prices”, jeez. I hear that sometimes and it reeks of entitlement. Can’t they get their commission from another artist who is way under charging, like most do? Too broke for furry art… first world problems. Fursuits do cost a lot, they also take so much work that makers earn minimum wage. As far as lowest common denominator porn art that is all about money, no argument there… but I’d tell the whiners, so what? Money-driven doesn’t mean rich. Making lots of that kind of art doesn’t mean power to control what people get to see. I don’t see anything but consumer choice in it.
I can only hope that talented artists (like you) in this niche can earn as much as they can ask!
Haha Rob Liefeld… this is reminding me, I met Travis Knight when he was touring a special screening of the Boxtrolls. He’s the son of the founder of Nike and had a short lived career as a rapper, now he’s an animator in charge of what used to be Will Vinton’s company. “How the Father of Claymation Lost His Company.” The article is really good, it has one of those American 1% nepotism stories that raises debate.